Before I blame my Lightning.................

[96720]

THE STORY……..I purchased a new .177 BSA Lightning (old style, FAC) about 8 years ago.  I could never get it to zero yet alone produce a grouping.  It demolished 3 scopes so far and I’ve had issues of my scope moving (changed as may mounts too).  So, the rifle was cast off to my closet….. till now.  I’d like to resolve my problems and turn it into a “work horse” that it’s meant to be.  So, I’ll call this part 1 of my saga. 

So, before I blame my Lightning……….I’d like to know the “proper technique” in shooting a spring piston air rifle.  What’s the proper “set up”, “form”, “tension”…………..in being consistent in shooting these types of rifles?  What shouldn’t I do………bench rest and other things?  Any input will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

[silent sniper]

first i would get a sportsmatch dampa mount so you can fit your scope solid and not wreck it, then get in the garden and practice till your eyes bleed.different guns like a different technique due to its size it can be quite lively start with a loose grip just infront of the trigger and work from there when you are hitting the target you have to be consistant same grip and stance every time  ;)

[james]

as far as scopes go, i have had a nikko sterling mount master on my superport for almost 6 months and it seems to be holding up. the mounts you need to do up rally tight, you could buy a one piece mount or/and an arrestor block which screws into the hole at the back and to of the action. i dot know it the older ones have this though.
if you find you groupings moving its most likely the scope reticle is buggered.

when holding a springer you need to hold it exactly the same each time, i have my thumb on the front stock screw and hold it quite lightly but tightly enough to hold it still. squeeze the trigger and hold the cross hairs on the target until you hear the pellet impact.

try different type and makes of pellets (rws are a good brand) and clean you barrel before each type.

if you bench rest, put you hand between the bench and the gun to form a 'cushion' so the gun doesn't jump all over the place

hope this helps, someone will add some more info soon  

[seagate]

  I bet a fac lightning is abit challenging to shoot from bench, good luck.
   nick

[march hare]

If you go on Youtube and enter " Artillery Hold " I think you will find the clip helpful.

Lightnings are tricky beasts at the best of times,I can only imagine a FAC version will kick like a mule and consistent hold will be difficult but not impossible to maintain.

Please keep us all posted on your progress.

Regards,

March Hare

[Brownpants]

I agree the Lightning takes a bit of getting used to I have got one and on a bench rest 1" groupings at 20 yards in my hands 2" groupings and a couple of flyers (my fault).
Still love the gun.

[seagate]

 I've been messing today and found aa field group well in 22.  A tip for tac stock owners shooting from bench/rest is to use the thumb cut out and middle finger only to grip the palm swell very lightly ,your bottom 2 fingers want to be away from the gun. with this you can remain in fine control of the trigger and stay on target ,wobble free and still let the gun recoil freely. I use not the tip of my finger but the (EDIT) FIRST  joint down which when the trigger breaks is much more controled. Forehand flat and very near to the trigger guard, this is the only way i can shoot mine acceptabley. Very satisfying. Hope it helps.
   keep plinking
  nick
 

[96720]

Thanks for all the tips!  Part 2 of my saga……..  For starters I’m going to try and get 5 shot groupings (with RWS SuperDomes), without mounting a scope (too many problems with trying to zero a scope for now) by placing a 1/8” strip of tape down the center length of the “volumetric silencer” and two more strips on the scope rail as my “rear sight”.  At this point I’m trying to deduct whether or not I’m having shooting technique issues, interference issues with my ”volumetric silencer” or from my scope rail/scope mounting system. I’ll do a “walk back tune” (like in archery) start at 5m then 10m then 15m and see if any pattern is magnified by the increase in distance.  Here are pics of my “crude” open sight setup and my 3 “groupings”.  I know my groupings suck and other than my two “flyers” at 10m and 15m do you think there are any interference issues with my silencer?  As I mentioned early on, I was never able to zero a scope and had issues of scope movement.  What should I consider doing in my next step?  Is there a possibility that the rail is misaligned?
          

[silent sniper]

as already said before the first step is a good quality one peice mount if you have tried 2 scopes and never been able to zero and your wrecking scopes i went though 3 sets of mounts before i bit the bullet and bought a £30 set of sportsmatch mounts and for the first time i hold zero

[seagate]

I like your true glow sights, silent sniper is bang on, get some bsa  fully adjustable 1piece mounts(part no 603c). I've recently put some on my xl and it's worked wonders . The scope is optically centred giving it an easier time, and the adjustments work predictabley.
  They don't look to be clipping to me, otherwise afew pellets would be hitting your targets sideways, more than likely. It's practice and patience.
   atb nick

[REIVER]

Hi 96720
You’ve probably already done this, but just in case, have you checked that the three stock bolts haven’t worked loose.

I check my XL every few weeks, but sometimes if I forget, I’m soon reminded when the accuracy goes off and then it’s the first thing I check as it’s a good bet that it’s because the bolts have worked loose again.

I like them tight but not over tight and I don’t use Loctite because I like to remove the stock every now and then to clean underneath.

My Lightning is not FAC, so I would guess that a FAC Lightning’s bolts will work loose much more often.

Regards
John

[96720]

Silent Sniper and Seagate,  I priced both the Sportsmatch (Theoben Dampa Mount in the US)  £64 and the BSA 603c mount (B-Square 14mm one piece in the US)  £48.  I’m wondering if “barrel droop” is a concern on my “older” Lightning and I should be in favor of an adjustable one piece mount in medium height (2-7X32 scope)?

Yes, Reiver.  I did check my stock bolts.  I’ll remember to keep a heads up on checking them more often.

[silent sniper]

sportsmatch (theoben) do make an adjustable mount but if the cost difference is large you can always put a shim under the rear mount which is what i had to do with mine 

[seagate]

I would say go for the bsa 603c b square. Having the erector tube in the middle of it's adjustment as opposed to, at the extreme of elevation adjustment flicking about shot to shot (possibley) trumps a dampa mount, that is what the maxi rail should do. I've got one on mine and would recomend them.
   nick

[kent]

                   If it's not you not the gun then its the scope possibly zero being knocked out on each shot making groups look bad. Our lightning is functioning well @10ft lb in .22 cal with a brake installed at the end of the can. Handy little hunter, can't imagine shooting an FAC one jumpy little gun it is

[Brownpants]

                   If it's not you not the gun then its the scope possibly zero being knocked out on each shot making groups look bad. Our lightning is functioning well @10ft lb in .22 cal with a brake installed at the end of the can. Handy little hunter, can't imagine shooting an FAC one jumpy little gun it is

I agree with Kent as my Lightning has got the LF-1 laser/torch fitted to scope and I had to keep tightening that until it kept its zero because I was scared of overtightening it.

[seagate]

 96720 you might want to check your gun to make sure it has got the maxi rail fitted. I'm not sure if all lightnings have them otherwise it will be a different part number/  rail size. It will be on  the bsa website.
  "practice practice"
     happy plinking nick

[Rune_rebel]

What pellets have you tryed?
In my XL cal 177 FAC I put JSB Exact and Baracuda pellets.
I have better groups at 40 meters using JSB than your groups are at 5 meters. Try these pellets first.

Cheers
Rune

[96720]

Rune, currently my problem is that I've never gotten to zero a scope on my Lightning.  The group was from RWS SuperDomes with my crude open sights.  I have shot Premiers, Exacts, FTS's, Kodiaks, AA's and others.........couldn't tell what kind of true groups I was getting because of the scope mount that I've come to find out.  I'll let you know how my "true groupings" go when I end my "saga".
Thanks.

[96720]

Thanks again for all the input and suggestions.  I will purchase a one piece mount and if I have the extra cash I’ll get one that’s adjustable.  By the way, Nick my Lightning does come with a Maxi-grip scope rail.

From the onset of replies I’ve noticed that there seems to be a concern of the “liveliness” of my FAC Lightning.  How much of a difference is there between a “normal” and a “FAC” Lightning?  What kind of groupings can you expect?  How much accuracy am I sacrificing by having the FAC version?  Now I’m wondering if I need to “tame” this “unruly beast” before proceeding.  

So, now a “twist” in my saga, Part 3, “taming the beast”……….  What options do I have in making my Lightning more “shooter friendly” and effective out to 40 yards (other than lots of practice)?  What muzzle velocity works best with a .177 Lightning (accuracy wise)?  Are gas rams an option?  Are there a variety of gas rams made for this model?  Should I look for a weaker spring?  Or, an aftermarket/custom spring?  Tuning?      

[seagate]

AA field pellets work in mine, here's a target i shot this morning.RWS s/domes don't work in my gun. I had 3 goes with the rws pellets but i did rubbish , swapped to aa field and back to normal.
     nick  
  

[seagate]

 Received your pm , these are my thoughts, but bare in mind 'i've not been shooting long so these are my thoughts up to press. Give it a week or two and i'll be spouting the opposite a little info is a bad thing in my case. 

  In the UK, gasrams are marketed by Theoban. Crossman or Gamo use something similiar in their Nitro range of guns.

   Up to a while ago i was perusing the idea of converting /detune mine, ''Why'' i hear you ask. Because i couldn't shoot it acceptabley, that's the answer. I've changed something slightly triggerwise and my groups have closed up a little,overnight. This has been recent, before,the aa field  group on the above target would have been nearly twice the size.

   Conistency . Genuine BSA springs( in my case at least) have been more consistent than a hw with a non standard gasram , so what's the point.  I won't  comment any further on gasrams . I will only show my ignorance, somebody else maybe tell you more.

   Recoil, accuracy, hold sensitiveness ...      Not particularly made for the casual untrained ''garden/ funshooting type''  numpties like me. Its more attuned to the practiced marksman. Nothing gets away from the fact it is a  lightly built rifle with an  oversquare (compared to many) bore, making for a ideal short range mooching rifle. But needing a little practice .
   If your a member of a shooting club, theyll put you right in 2 minutes. But if your teaching yourself, it can take a while.
     So Tim,the correct pellet and practice.  It's the chicken and egg analogy, learning to shoot+fitting new scope and zeroing+and choosing the correct pellet, well that's like strawberry jam to top it off with.
   atb nick

[96720]

Nick, thanks so much for your insight and support.  I've come to realize what the "real" issue is.  And, I believe it's time for me to get my springer in shape and learn shoot it.  Thanks!!!!!!!

[seagate]

Blind leading the blind

[96720]

I've searched the internet for specifically detailed "take down/rebuild" tutorials on either the Lightning or Supersport and couldn't find any.  Does anyone know if there's such a document or have the knowledge produce one (pictures would be nice)?  I'm rather intimidated in dismantling a "new" air rifle not to mention it being my first.

[silent sniper]

mate its a peice of piss really i strip down my mercury all the time i"m a compulsive twiddler and have to know how things work i dont think there are many springers out there that would take longer than 30 mins to strip the only thing you really really need is a spring compressor or sash cramp to release the spring .have never stripped a lightning but i think you have to remove the maxi rail to get the trigger unit out then the spring and piston will follow if you google chambers gun makers they have an exploded diagram that might be worth a look ,the lightning is never going to be a really smooth gun purely because of its size the air cylinder is very small so the spring has to be a bit harsh were as an hw80 has a huge air cylinder and makes fac power without trying when you get it stripped clean and polish any bits you are going to re use buy a nice delrin spring guide and top hat re lube sparingly and stick it back together ,,you may find a strip down video on utube i did and just done my first pcp strip polish new seals and rebuild never even seen inside a pcp but took around 15 mins to strip good luck and keep us posted 

[kent]

             Its not all about volume to get power, Look at the volume of a TX or Pro- sport, Lazerglide 80. Efficiency is also incredibly important, less friction, transfer ports etc., etc. 

[silent sniper]

i think you are confusing things a little all of the guns you mention are very heavy guns which absorb a lot of the recoil from the gun a luxury the xl does not have, to acheive fac power from such a small gun is going to generate a lot of kick in fact the 80 has one of the largest cylinders of most spring guns and when lazaglided they reduce the size of the cylinder to keep the power withing the legal limit 

[kent]

i think you are confusing things a little all of the guns you mention are very heavy guns which absorb a lot of the recoil from the gun a luxury the xl does not have, to acheive fac power from such a small gun is going to generate a lot of kick in fact the 80 has one of the largest cylinders of most spring guns and when lazaglided they reduce the size of the cylinder to keep the power withing the legal limit 

           My comment were pertaining to the spring actually needing to be harsh to generate the power from a smaller chamber, it doesn't my Lazerglide 80 has a 30mm diameter chamber and has not got a harsh spring, indeed it is less harsh than the std 80 with a larger chamber. I cannot comment on the std FAC lightning as i havent shot one however our lightning operates at reduced power nicely. Efficency and correct porting can generate a fair old amount of power from a fairly small area- biggers springs is a quick fix to power and without effecient internals and correct porting just makes a gun nasty. I have mentioned to Steve Pope about some work on the lightning shortly perhaps to increse the power and reduce the cocking effort and smooth it out, however i am holding off as i might sell it and go pcp as it is the gun my ten year old uses and i know she prefers a bolt action finding the continous cocking action tiresome during practice sesions

[silent sniper]

you keep using your hw80 as an example but the 80 was designed as an fac gun by beeman for the american market and has one of the largest cylinders of any spring gun and were as the lightning is one of the smallest for an fac gun so is always going to give more recoil and be much more lively i do fully understand that there is more to it than spring size and dont really understand the point you are tring to make oh and if your gun is a lazaglide it will have a sleeve inside reducing the cylinder even more to 27mm not 30 which is the standard cylinder size.Now can we just get back to the original question please